In this special feature, three of our Heidrick & Struggles colleagues—Kathryn Bardi, Christina Cary, and Sean McLean—sit down to talk about neurodiversity: what it is and what it means for leaders, particularly CHROs and chief people officers, looking to make their organizations more inclusive. The three offer their advice to a leader or manager who wants to make a positive difference but isn’t quite sure where to start; discuss what it takes to create a workplace that accommodates neurodiversity; and share their thoughts on how leaders should think about remote work when it comes to our neurodivergent colleagues.

Below is a full transcript of the episode, which has been lightly edited for clarity.

Welcome to the Heidrick & Struggles Leadership Podcast. Heidrick is the premier global provider of senior-level executive search and leadership consulting services. Diversity and inclusion, leading through tumultuous times, and building thriving teams and organizations are among the core issues we talk with leaders about every day, including in our podcasts. Thank you for joining the conversation.

Christina Cary: Hi everyone. Welcome to the Heidrick & Struggles Leadership Podcast. Today we bring you something of a special episode, a conversation about a topic that holds personal significance to everyone that is joining us today, and that is neurodiversity in the workplace. I’m Christina Cary, a partner in the Washington, DC, office of Heidrick & Struggles, and a member of the Human Resources Officers Practice and Global Technology & Services Practice, and today I'm joined by my colleagues Sean McLean and Kathryn Bardi, and I will let them introduce themselves. Kathryn, take it away.

Kathryn Bardi: Hi, I’m Kathryn Bardi. I'm a principal within our consulting practice. My background is in applied neuroscience, where I’ve done a lot of work with children and adults with varying cognitive and physical disabilities. I’m happy to be here and join the conversation. 

Sean McLean: And hello, I am Sean McLean. I'm a partner in the Heidrick & Struggles Calgary office and a member of the global Industrial and Financial Officers practices. Also notable is that I started my career as an educator. I was a teacher and administrator in a school that specialized in students with learning difficulties, and I'm also a parent of neurodiverse children, so happy to be here.

Christina Cary: Thanks, Kathryn and Sean. This conversation came about after several really insightful events about the shifting landscape of global talent and neurodiversity in the workplace that Heidrick hosted in the US and Canada. The three of us have been a part of those events where we've talked with leaders about challenges and opportunities for organizations. So to start us off, maybe let's take the broader view. I can imagine that many leaders and managers care deeply about this topic, but candidly, they may feel stressed about adding something to their already-full plates. Kathryn, before we really dig in, just to set the stage at the foundation, what is neurodiversity? Can you give us our working definition for the day? 

Kathryn Bardi: Yeah, happy to. Neurodiversity is really around the culture and the environment, having the idea that people with different experiences interact with the world around them in many different ways. So there's no one right way of thinking, of learning, of behaving, and that these differences aren't necessarily viewed as deficits, but rather natural additions to any culture team, etcetera.

Within neurodiversity fall neurodivergent individuals, and that's where you see disabilities such as autism spectrum disorder, ADHD, dyslexia, anxiety disorder, and so on. There's a broad umbrella of types of disabilities that fit within the neurodivergent workforce. I'm always really intentional to make sure that we're broadening the understanding of actually what fits within that definition of neurodivergence and that there isn't a one-size-fits-all [approach] when it comes to what's going to work for each employee. It is so individualized. So I always like to start the conversation off with that. 

Christina Cary: Fantastic. Sean, starting with you, what would you say to someone who wants to make a difference but is already near capacity with competing priorities? 

Sean McLean: For starters, I'd start at a higher level, and I would suggest that business leaders and executives always need to be thinking about the performance, the productivity, and the well-being of their employees. I think most would agree that creating a workplace where the highest possible percentage of the workforce participants are engaged, successful, and productive is a worthwhile goal.

So if we can agree on that, and then we look at some data, we know that according to various reports, anywhere from 10% to 20% of the world's population is neurodiverse. We know that it's one of the many examples of invisible diversity that exists in most workplaces, and sadly, we also know that neurodivergent workers are far more likely to be fired, underemployed, or unemployed. The center for ADHD awareness in Canada shared some statistics: Adults with ADHD are 61% more likely to be fired, 53% more likely to quit, and 20% less likely to be employed. And yet with relatively minor accommodations, many workplaces and for many roles can make a huge impact on improving those outcomes and I think, on improving business outcomes as well.

Christina Cary: Amazingly helpful. And Kathryn shifting to you, what do you think it takes to create a workplace that accommodates neurodiversity, especially within organizations that pride themselves on having what we would call hard-charging cultures of high performance? What are your thoughts on that? 

Kathryn Bardi: Chances are you've already hired an individual with neurodiversity. They've earned their spot in the organization. They've likely gone through the same interview processes and qualifications as others. They have the horsepower, right? That executive functioning with faculties as needed. But next comes the question of the work itself. So how do they work? How do they work within the confines of the existing teams? Level setting on those expectations, requirements, and seeing where there is wiggle room to flex—to be able to ensure they're able to do their best thinking. 

They're kind of two categories of changes or focus areas that I encourage companies and clients to look at: hard wiring versus soft wiring. Hard wiring is [making] adjustments to processes and things like that. For recruitment, looking at candidate selection, what are the must-haves [qualities] for the role and what are the nice-to-haves?

How is each requirement or skill set weighted? Well naturally—unconsciously—we prefer people who sound and look like us, but really getting clear on what's mandatory and what's not, to ensure that all candidates have a fair shot of joining the firm. 

With incoming employee populations that have neurodivergent talent, what are the options within the company that may not be the traditional path, and where is there flexibility to try out other hats and other seats within the firm?

Christina Cary: I know as someone who spends a lot of my time speaking to CHROs and chief people officers, this is certainly a topic that is on their minds and they're really trying to become more progressive about how they enhance their accommodations and spend time learning about the neurodivergent population.

We're a couple of years beyond the depths of the pandemic. We're still seeing organizations struggle, some very publicly, to get their policies right, specifically their return-to-office policies. How should we think about remote work when it comes to our neurodivergent colleagues? Kathryn, I'll stick with you on this one.

Kathryn Bardi: So I actually just had a call yesterday with a client on this very specific topic. The pandemic did wonders for people with disabilities in the job market. We saw an unprecedented 30% increase in the workforce participation within this group. So job opportunities that were once closed to them were now open.

So there is a real risk in doing a full return-to-office mandate. What the pandemic did, in essence, is leveled the playing field for people who cannot come into the office or for whom coming into the office presents more difficulties than not. Everyone was working at that disadvantage, if you will. You know, many of my clients are looking at a hybrid approach when it comes to return-to-office policies, which allows for some flexibility. I always say that the most important thing is to communicate that flexibility upfront. For instance, if you're moving to a hybrid model or an all-office model, be really clear that should you have specific needs or accommodations that warrant flexibility to the plan, please contact so-and-so. And make sure that person of contact is not a direct manager, but rather an HR representative. 

Christina Cary: Sean, what are your thoughts? 

Sean McLean: Well, I think Kathryn answered it brilliantly. I would only add that sometimes when we delve into this topic, particularly around making accommodations for certain individuals, the topic of fairness can come up, and it reminds me of when I was an educator and people would learn of some of the accommodations that we provided to children with learning differences.
Those things could be something as simple as extra time. In some cases, a learner would be provided a scribe to help them communicate on an exam, or in some cases, a recorded version of the exam that they could listen to while they were completing it, and that's when that topic of fairness would come up.

We always encourage people to think of fairness, not as everyone getting the same, but everyone getting what they need so they can compete on a level playing field. It strikes me that the debate that's going on right now around equality and equity is similar, and I would just suggest, again, especially in the area of neurodiversity, we all benefit when our colleagues can be provided with the tools that they need to be successful.

Kathryn Bardi: The fairness conversation is one we have very frequently across diversity programming like Sean just mentioned. Initially, lifetimes ago, I was a ski instructor and I specialized in adaptive skiing, working with adults and children with varying disabilities, and there was a way that we would actually cut the chairlift line. I had my instructor jacket on, my student would have a neon vest on, but when you're tired, cold, and you've been standing in line for 45 minutes or an hour, it’s easy to look past these things. And every now and then we’d get an “Aw, come on. That's not fair.” And I'd hear that come up and of course, so would the student. And I had empathy for that. 

But one unique part of my training—and this is where I think it really becomes difficult for those who don't have experience directly with individuals with disabilities—was to really understand what's going on. And this part of my training is where they actually had us blindfolded to get on a chair lift. Now, I'd done that upwards of 10,000 times, and I’d had students with me who were visually impaired [and I’d say,] “Here comes the chair, you're going to sit down in three, two, one.” I thought I really did a good job, but experiencing what that process was like without any visual faculties was such a game changer for me in how I approached teaching, and in how I approached really interacting more broadly with anyone. 

It's hard to find that empathy and know what's really needed and required to enable individuals to have success if you haven't experienced it yourself. A “What about me?” effect comes to mind because we're biologically wired that way. We seek fairness, right? So it is a tough thing to really grasp and you know, the reality is most will never fully get it right, but some of the initiatives that I alluded to earlier around soft wiring and building awareness of what is and what isn't part of neurodivergence, [can help].

The personal stories—if you have employees that will be willing to share their personal stories—are the best chance for activating that empathy circuitry in the brain. For someone who hasn't experienced neurodiversity directly or within family or friends, that's the best way to start to get them to see and understand a little bit more deeply what living and working with the various conditions are.

Christina Cary: Yeah and personally speaking, as a parent of a neurodivergent individual myself, it has been so rewarding to be able to have those conversations with other individuals in my personal and professional network, and I'm just so happy that companies are really starting to engage in the discussion. I'll pose this question to both of you: What challenges have you experienced in starting these conversations? Sean, maybe if you start. 

Sean McLean: Yeah, I think you alluded to it at the outset around the idea of capacity, people not feeling they have capacity. So I would say the barrier feels like fatigue, whether it's ESG, work from home, or DEI, many just feel that the expectations of employers have changed so much and so fast that they just don't have capacity for another initiative.

Some are even trying to scale back some of the initiatives that have been implemented over the last, call it five to seven years. How I respond to that is to try to minimize thinking of this as a net new initiative and really just acting upon or improving the leadership and management capabilities that probably should be done in your organization anyway. I'll go back to my educational days as an example. As a first-year teacher, I was doing a lesson on poetry, and as a first-year teacher at the school I was at, you had to have a master teacher present at all times. I decided in this poetry lesson, that I thought was particularly boring on a nice day, that we needed to go outside and continue the lesson outside.

This is a classic young teacher mistake to take the kids outside and think that that's going to go smoothly. For one student in particular who happened to be on the spectrum, a change in routine was very stressful and detrimental. And so by me doing something that I thought would be fun and rewarding, I probably ruined that learner's lesson and maybe even the rest of their day.

Fortunately, my teaching partner was able to take that individual aside, kind of manage the situation, and minimize the damage. And so in the debrief, she asked me, “What could we have done differently there?” It's not that you can't ever go outside. It's not [00:16:00] that you ever can't depart from the routine or try new and different things, but how can we do it in a way that's more inclusive and more comfortable for everyone involved?

Turned out that for this particular student, a behavioral rehearsal—letting him know what was coming, doing a quick rehearsal, and a quick reminder of the strategies that he was going to use—was particularly effective. So the next time I had one of my first-year teacher ideas about doing something creative—I think it was a guest speaker—I talked to the student that morning, and we did the behavioral rehearsal. As it unfolded, he looked at me, gave me a big thumbs up, and it turned out to be a really positive experience. And as that year went on, there were other times to do that, and what was interesting is he actually started to internalize that process as he needed less coaching and was able to use the strategy.

So that was a really powerful example for me. All it takes is a little bit of planning. Well, I would like to think that executives and managers are being intentional and thoughtful when they're going into meetings and that they know who their teams are and what minor accommodations might really help someone be much more productive and contributing. Send the materials out in advance. Send an agenda out in advance. Allow people that need a little bit more processing time to take it. These aren't huge changes or initiatives, in my opinion. I think small changes, some best practices or leading practices around just leadership and management effectiveness, can go a huge way in helping your neurodiverse colleagues.

Kathryn Bardi: So one thing I will say is that the interventions, the tactics we're talking about here, are outside of the formal accommodation process that HR runs—the legal process in the United States of looking at the American Disabilities Act [to determine] what are the accommodations within reason. The accommodations we're talking about today are the ones where managers have discretion to be able to flex in small things that really aren't a robust change to the environment or to the work expectations, etcetera.

One thing I do share is a lot of times we have these great, well-intentioned leaders who honestly just don't want to say the wrong thing. Right? They're really uncomfortable because this is a very sensitive topic. It's a high-risk conversation and so often they will actually stop. One tip I always share, and it's actually something you learn in medical school, is to never one-up your patient. So how this works in a workplace conversation is an employee comes to you to disclose that they have ADHD, and often in an effort to make the employee feel comfortable and to share that you understand, it's really tempting to say, “Oh, my son, my sister, my partner has ADHD.” But what this can look like is that you're making the conversation about you, even though you know it's done with the best intention. 

Share that information at another time and make the conversation all about the employee that just came forward to you: “Thank you so much for sharing that. I can imagine this is difficult. How does this present for you at work? Is there anything I can do to support you?” And if they want help and it's something that is a little bit more of a flex than you can easily provide, offer to bring in HR and have the conversation with them and HR to ensure and see what options do we have to set them up for success? So being flexible and empathetic is really a great way to start to approach this conversation if you're caught off guard and an employee comes to you. 

Christina Cary: Thank you so much, Kathryn. I guess to wrap things up—this has been a very robust discussion—Sean, what are your overall tips for addressing neurodiversity in the workplace?

Sean McLean: Yeah, I think starting with the notion of psychological safety, that this is a workplace where you can feel safe to bring forward any concerns, observations, and what you're feeling, and feel safe in the knowledge that that won't negatively impact your career, that it's an empathetic culture. You'll be heard, you'll be cared for, and that effort will be made to help you be successful. I think embedding some of those values in your culture so people feel safe coming forward. You must also then of course, couple that with exactly what Kathryn was referring to: Add some training and a culture so that your leaders and managers are well equipped to handle those conversations when they do come up. I think starting with the culture, focusing on how that drives high performance and effectiveness in the workplace, is a great starting place. In closing, I just wanted to share one observation from the event that Kathryn and I did in Calgary.

I think we had between 25 and 30 executives and board directors attend our session, and within 24 hours of the session, I couldn't believe the number of emails I received from individuals who self-identified as neurodiverse, who thanked us for the session, and who then highlighted that they had actually spent a great deal of energy and time trying to hide their neurodiversity during their careers and how they wondered how their careers might have been different.

These were incredibly successful individuals with varying forms of neurodivergence that felt they had to hide that. And I just found that very interesting and thought it was worth sharing. In a modern workplace, in our current workplaces, can we do a better job of having individuals feel comfortable to identify some of the challenges they might be having and asking for accommodations that could allow them to be even more successful?

Kathryn Bardi: I like to focus on the people leaders themselves because people leaders can be a make-or-break when it comes to a neurodivergent individual being successful in the workplace. So first and foremost, be flexible and empathetic. Think about ways to shift expectations to align with the person and their needs, within reason. And remembering and reminding yourself that everyone has different ways of working—it's not just neurodiverse individuals—and being curious about that. We have a lot of assumptions out there around different disabilities. Don't rely on those, and seek out information when you're uncertain or to broaden your understanding.

Christina Cary: Thank you so much, Kathryn and Sean, for a robust conversation. I think we've just scratched the surface on this topic, and so our plan is to make this the first of many conversations, and in the future, I would envision us including clients who have a perspective on neurodiversity candidates and others in our ecosystem. So we look forward to continuing the dialogue and thanks for listening. Have a great rest of your day. 

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About the participants

Kathryn Bardi (kathryn.bardi@businessfourzero.com) is a principal in Heidrick & Struggles’ Chicago office and a member of the consulting practice. 

Christina Cary (cbcary@heidrick.com) is a partner in Heidrick & Struggles’ Washington, DC, office and a member of the Human Resources Officers and Technology & Services practices.

Sean McLean (smclean@heidrick.com) is the partner in charge of Heidrick & Struggles’ Calgary office and a member of the global Industrial and Financial Officers practices.