In this episode of The Heidrick & Struggles Leadership Podcast, Heidrick & Struggles’ Adam Howe sits down with Shawn Bushouse. Throughout his career, Shawn has spent time on multiples sides of large and small businesses, from start-ups shipping their first order to global enterprises with market value nearing $300 billion. He has led teams of varying sizes, both scaled and sold companies as well as purchased businesses, and led venture capital and private equity–backed businesses.  

In this interview, Shawn shares his biggest lessons on being an effective executive in both start-up environments and inside a corporate, what the biggest differences and similarities in these environments are, and how he’s adapted his own personal leadership style as he transitions between the two different types of organizations. He also discusses some of the culture trends he’s seen in start-ups transitioning into larger, more established organizations.

Below is a full transcript of the episode, which has been lightly edited for clarity. 

Welcome to The Heidrick & Struggles Leadership Podcast. Heidrick is the premier global provider of senior-level executive search and leadership consulting services. Diversity and inclusion, leading through tumultuous times, and building thriving teams and organizations are among the core issues we talk with leaders about every day, including in our podcasts. Thank you for joining the conversation.

Adam Howe: Hi, I'm Adam Howe, I’m a partner in Heidrick & Struggles based in New York City. In today's podcast, I'm speaking to Shawn Bushouse. Shawn was most recently the president of emerging brands at Nestle Health Science. Shawn’s career has seen him work on multiple sides of large and small businesses from start-ups shipping their first order to global conglomerates like Kellogg's and Nestle.

Shawn has been on both sides of M&A, having scaled, sold, and acquired businesses, and has led VC- and PE-backed businesses, and also advised on behalf of VC and PE.

Shawn, thanks so much for coming onto our podcast.

Shawn Bushouse: Yeah, thank you, Adam. I appreciate you having me.

Adam Howe: So Shawn, to kick us off, what are your biggest lessons on being an effective executive in both a start-up/scale-up and inside a corporate? What do you see as being the biggest differences and similarities in these environments as a leader? 

Shawn Bushouse: You know, it really has been just an amazing journey. I think to your initial question around lessons and differences between start-ups and large organizations, I'd say the good news is across nearly all these environments, people are people. So, at the core of any business, I think the fundamentals are largely similar. You know, employees rally around people they respect. They work hard and super passionately if they're able to align with the mission of the business. They need, they require, and they really deserve clear communication from leadership and we need to make sure they understand how their efforts fit into the broadest picture. So, a lot of similarities on the people side.

I think the primary differences lie in the ways of working. So if we think about the differences between the environments themselves, there's a pacing difference for sure. Right? In an early-stage business, we're likely going to talk about hours and days. When we take an action, you know, it's assumed that we're going to get moving on those pretty quickly, whereas in our larger organizations, we may have the luxury of periods and quarters to move and execute that structure. 

The scope of work is also quite a bit different. The broadness of the large-scale organizations versus the specific nature of a lot of the actions in our early stages are definitely evident reasonably quickly. Even if we look at the employee base themselves, the core competencies are organized a little bit different, right? Employees tend to be a little more specified in our larger organizations with very technical capabilities and where a lot of times in our earlier stage businesses, there is a general—there's a broader hat being worn by each employee.

And then you see the technological differences, right? Large business will probably have large-scale ERP—a lot of tools—whereas sometimes in our earlier-stage businesses, we do see, you know, a little bit more manual execution; a little more ad hoc nature versus the scale of our large stage.      

But at the end of the day, despite a lot of these differences, if we act very intentionally with our people strategy and acknowledge that there is a difference in the ways of working, I think the career benefits of having exposure to both sides are just immense, and I highly recommend, if our listeners have the opportunity, to see the other side of the coin from wherever they are, take it.

Adam Howe: Yeah, really interesting. I mean, there are some differences as you share: Some obvious ones and some that are kind of subtle and nuanced. And I guess given that, I'm really curious about changes you’ve had to make to your own personal leadership style as you transition between these two different types of organizations and if there was a specific thing or two in either situation that you decided to do, or not do, in your first hundred days? 

Shawn Bushouse: Yeah, that’s a good one. I really spent, if I think about my own career, I spent the first 10-plus years at Kellogg’s, right? A Fortune 500 company, great organization. And then I moved after, you know, over a decade of time in that universe into an early stage, sub-$50 million of revenue environment and the first thing I had to adjust was the scope of work, right? The primary focus of our organization in large businesses is very leveled, strategically, and multiple quarters out, as I mentioned, from a timeline standpoint. Day one in an early stage is going to present a lot of very short interval problems, and opportunities, that really require you to have a deeper technical knowledge of the functions that you oversee.

So in exaggerated terms, you could easily, in an early-stage environment, have a day where you go from next year’s marketing plan, to union negotiations, to how are we going to meet payroll next week—all in a span of just a few hours in an early stage. And, frankly, that's part of the fun. There's a lot of camaraderie and amazing times to be had during that.

So in the first 100 days, and realistically during the recruitment process, I think you really want deep dive into the business, meet everyone that you can, and acquire a much deeper technical understanding of how things work, so you can acclimate to the pace and that scope of work and see the world through the lens that the average employee has in that organization. Then, you can apply many of those great practices and core processes that you've learned in the large structured organization, and it adds significant value to the early stage rather quickly. 

Now, conversely, going from the early stage into a large business—which I also did—I think the key is early in that tenure to really get the lay of the land from the people side, the people culture. You know, naturally in these larger organizations, there is going to be a bit more of a hierarchy or a political environment, for lack of better term. So it's important to network and understand the key leaderships’ priorities and style, so you can align your own style for maximum influence. So I think even a bit more of investment in understanding how things get done when you're making that transition from the early stage to the larger environments.

Adam Howe: Yeah, and I think about the work that we do day to day with clients around cultures and teams, and I'd be really curious about your observations. You talked about this a second ago about [how] the bigger organizations have more hierarchies, there's kind of more politics. I'd be really curious as to kind of what would be true of the culture and teams in a larger organization that is not true in a kind of smaller start-up scale-up? 

Shawn Bushouse: Sure, sure, yeah. In context of culture and teams, you know, there are certainly some differences. I think when we look at our start-ups and our scale-up organizations earlier stage, it's truly inspiring. The level of dedication that our teams have for the mission and the founders and the leadership teams—it's absolutely amazing. Especially with our younger generations, I think; they are so very mission-oriented and they want their work environment to reflect their own values. So when it's aligned, you see an amazing level of work ethic, personal pride, and this really core desire to build the skills to push that mission forward. It's really energizing. 

That being said, that same culture is really a garden that requires, you know, watering quite continually because the brand or the company doesn't likely have employees with a ton of tenure. The mission is newer by definition, so every event, every up, every down is quite a bit more meaningful.

So, frequent and very thoughtful culture building I think is very essential. And this is also why recruiting and having invested partners is so critical. I used to tell people coming into my smaller organizations, you are literally X percent of the culture, right? If there's a hundred people, you are 1% of the culture. So please, as you're navigating your day, make sure you're conducting yourself like someone you would want to work with because it is so critical to forming that early-stage culture. 

Now, on the other side, in the large organizations, you have a base that culturally has largely been established, right? Whether it's simply driven by how long the business has been around. So if I think about Kellogg's, I think they're 120 years in business. Nestle, I believe it was over 150. So you have this generational style that has been installed, or it may be driven by the industry, right? I think we know the tech industry, the banking industry, there tends to be, you know, there's certain culture attached to those as well, so they may have some influence. 

So I think the focus appropriately migrates in the larger organizations to ensure each of the employees understand their piece of where they play in the broader, larger puzzle. So functionally, how do their efforts move this massive company? And I think the very strong companies also dedicate resources ensuring that the employees feel connected to that broader mission. 

In a start-up, it's as easy as sending a slack message, “Hey, let's get in the conference room, you know, in five minutes,” and they'll feel that connection. The larger companies have to show a bit more explicitly what they stand for in terms of culture, in terms of planet, in terms of people, in terms of community, to ensure that desired culture keeps being reinforced through the generations.

Adam Howe: Yeah, the large organizations obviously have the scale that they have to manage culture and teams through, right? 

Shawn Bushouse: Absolutely.

Adam Howe: So, and many leaders, I'm sure, listening to this podcast, might be contemplating a leap from corporate to a start-up or a scale-up, or vice versa from a start-up or scale-up to a corporate, or trying to hire somebody who's doing the same. And I'd be really curious, given your experiences, you know, what would be the two or three biggest pieces of advice to someone that is listening that's in any one of those scenarios? 

Shawn Bushouse: Yeah, that's a great one and I would say actually, I would maybe assign a little bit of homework, maybe a prerequisite to that journey and I'd summarize it as this: Know what you like to do, with a capital “like.” I always ask some of my key hires as I'm going through the recruitment process, “Talk to me about what an absolutely amazing calendar for the week looks like, right? We come to our laptops on Monday, tell me what that week looks like that has you very, very smiley,” because it can get very easy to get caught up in the climbing of the levels or the titles or even the size of the business, wherever you derive some of that pride. But I promise you this, that career satisfaction is probably going to come from the things that you legitimately like to do.

So I always recommend really think that through and then aim, okay? So as far as specific advice for those that are contemplating, you know, a move between the size of companies, number one: Do it. I feel so amazingly blessed for the different lens that I can now look at an environment and that pays off in so many ways.

It pays off as I'm vetting personally, you know, new opportunities. It pays off relating with all kinds of employees, bringing that scrappiness of the start-up culture to big business. And then the rigor and strategy of larger business to the start-ups. So I think talented people can easily make the jump. It's certainly important to do your research, but the benefit of that experience pays dividends, you know, across an entire career.

Number two, I might advise is use the recruiting process to align around a few core fundamentals that you and the organization both agree on. And that applies both ways, right? If you're going into a larger organization, you'll report into a management structure. If you go into, you know, an earlier stage, there's probably some very individual people that are really key in driving that culture.

So it's almost like creating a North star in terms of what success looks like. I think it kicks the relationship off the right way on day one, being aligned on the same direction, the same strategies, and that applies whether you're a brand leader, you know, aligning on the creative approach, an operational executive understanding supply chain expectations, an HR professional understanding the current culture and where we're trying to go, what evolution looks like. So I think it's a great way of demonstrating your thought process, your competency, and making sure that the goals are similar, and I think that's very important when you make that transition.

And then the last one, you know, I'd simply say talk to people that have done it, you know, people that are on the other side of the coin. If you've led a career in big business and think it'd be fulfilling to move earlier stage, you know, network inside of those early stage leaders so that you can absorb how they think, how they speak, what's important to them, what are the struggles, what are the finest points that they take a lot of pride in.

And conversely, if you're earlier stage and looking towards that larger landscape, you know, there are a lot of public resources to read on how the roles are generally designed and the culture that the target company is positioning. So I think there's areas where you can really do a lot of pre-work and get networked in there so that that leap is a little less steep.

Adam Howe: Yeah, and on the topic of culture, I'm really interested because we often associate venture work and early stage businesses with high degrees of innovation for obvious reasons, and beyond the product that these start-up scale-up ventures are kind of generating, they operate culturally with very specific ways of working to foster innovation and a culture of innovation.

So, I'm curious about some of the culture trends you've seen in scale-up start-ups from venture work that you may see transitioning into the kind of mainstream in bigger organizations over the coming couple of years. So any thoughts you have on that? 

Shawn Bushouse: Sure. Well, first, I think you're spot on with that observation.

It's also been my experience that the cultural and the working environment kind of hot trends come from the earlier stage, and then that makes sense, right? That's where a lot of the innovation is emanating. So they're generally the ones that are disrupting the category. So it carries true that they're leading in the innovative ways of working.

So there are a few things that come to mind that I think we're going to see becoming more mainstream from our earlier stage trendsetters. And I think the first one that I point out a little more technical, but I think there's going to be a continued challenge in the large organizations to the established technology sets, right?

In the older days, it was easy to plug and play with a standard issued laptop. The programs that are on there are largely standardized, and we expect the employee to adapt. You see very quickly that our start-up cultures demand the best tool, not just the most common or the most scalable tool. So they communicate, they chat, they share, they align very quickly through these fun interfacing tools.

So I think that pressure will continue to be there for large organizations to be more flexible around their tech stack as it relates to the employee. And, and we've seen that historically, right? I remember the days where there were no Apple, there were no Macs, you know, issued. And I think we now see that, you know, it is certainly throughout the creative functions, but I think it we're far along this element and I think big business has done a great job adapting so far. 

Another item I think I would point out is I think there's more personality being brought to the workplace, and I think that's being driven somewhere between the combination of our younger generations representing a higher percentage each year of the total workforce and probably, to some degree, Covid. 

You know, we really see employees bringing their personalities to the front and center as remote work has been more dominant and the time in the office is a little more scarce. I think historically there's been this unwritten force of what professionalism looked like that dictated the formality of conversation, how we speak, how we interact with colleagues, and even how we dress in the work environment. I think we're going to continue to see employees demand more alignment between their own personalities and what success looks like in the business environment. 

And then I think finally “the best idea wins” concept is very prevalent in our early stage businesses, and I think that's going to continue to put pressure, again, potentially driven by our earlier generations. But one of my favorite parts about our start-ups is generally there's significantly less hierarchy. You know, ideas flow through the organization quickly, and employees lower in the organization feel very empowered to voice, you know, ideas freely. So, I suspect it's partially driven by so many examples over the last 10 years of businesses coming up from zero to very large influences.

You know, if we think about the tech and social media sectors, this feeling of empowerment to influence the organization vocally irrespective of their professional level or title, I think that's a trend we're going to continue to see, Adam. 

Adam Howe: Yeah, I agree, Shawn, I'd be interested, linked to that and the point you made about an increase of personality in the workplace—which I love and I completely agree with. I think we're seeing that more and more in the work we're doing with clients. People feeling more confident to be their authentic selves and bringing that into the workplace. What does that mean for leaders and some of the leadership capabilities that are going to become even more important to be able to foster employees feeling confident to bring their authentic selves, their personality, to feel empowered to share ideas. Do you have a perspective on maybe two or three leadership capabilities that are going to become even more important? 

Shawn Bushouse: Yeah, absolutely. And one is walking the talk, right? So if we want to lean in as a culture to exactly that. So if we take that example, you know, bringing personality from our employees out and having that freedom and we have to act like that.

We have to think about and be very vocal and be maybe a little more vulnerable, you know, about our own leadership brand. Some percentage of nearly every business is going to have, and potentially a very high percentage, are going to have remote work and so I think there's less structured interactions with employees—you know, the passing in the hallways type interactions.

You know, we have to be extra thoughtful on creating touch points and hosting meetings in such a way that our personalities really come through, which allows the employees to kind of follow suit. So employees, direct manager, and company leadership plays such a big role in the employee experience.

I think we'll need to continue, evolve, and convey, you know, our own personalities in new ways in this working world. And I think, you know, maybe another item is inspiring our teams. You know, again, kind of hitting on the remote work. Regardless of the size of the business, there has never been a more competitive time to both retain employees and also ensure we're getting a hundred percent of their effort.

So, again potentially tied to remote work, but I think our earlier generations really value that flexibility and then the work-life balance, which requires us as leaders to continue to step up our game, create environments that are fun, that are engaging, that are rewarding, and that align those personal goals, you know, with the business goals.

And I think maybe a third is—and this one's just more prevalent even in the last couple weeks in my experience—but I think the global education is something that is going to really be something that steps up even more. We continue to be more exposed to different cultures around the planet, and it's now a fairly rare occurrence that I look at a business that doesn't either currently participate in international trade or have it in the short-range operating plans.

So with direct to consumer becoming so prevalent, you know, that cross-border trade and it's just clearly something that our functional leaders and our general managers are going to have to have a better understanding of the globe. And I think that just helps position leaders in a great way as they're talking to their employees and we're setting up our own leadership brand to be maximum effectiveness.

Adam Howe: Great point, Shawn. We could talk about this all day, but I know that we're keeping you from something else, so we really appreciate you coming onto the podcast. This has been a fascinating conversation and your experience of going from scale-up start-up into corporate and back again is really interesting. So we really thank you for giving us your time and we look forward to seeing you soon. 

Shawn Bushouse: Absolutely. Well, thanks for having me and I really appreciate it.

Thanks for listening to The Heidrick & Struggles Leadership Podcast. To make sure you don't miss more future shaping ideas and conversations, please subscribe to our channel on the podcast app. And if you are listening via LinkedIn, Twitter, or YouTube, why not share this with your connections? Until next time.

About the interviewer

Adam Howe (ahowe@heidrick.com) is a partner in Heidrick & Struggles’ New York City and London offices and leads the firm’s global Organizational Simplicity and Digital Transformation service offerings; he is also a member of the Culture Shaping Practice.